Gir indikator for aw4 Prototypen montert

[Skywalker]

<!--quoteo(post=1311214:date=2 Feb 2007, 07:59:name=512TR)-->QUOTE(512TR @ 2 Feb 2007, 07:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->...
Fant noe som jeg hadde liggende på hardisken som kanskje er av interesse. En som har bygd manuell lock-up i all gear på AW4 kassen ved hjelp av 9 releer

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<b>Funksjonsbeskrivelse:</b>
OK. Har fått sjans til å se litt på logikken her.

Funksjon:
Det er en trinn-bryter som styrer hovedstrøm til logikken (reléene her samt solenoiden til converterlås, av/på).
Det er en impuls-bryter som aktiverer og de-aktiverer converterlås ettersom impulsbryter trykkes inn (på-av-på-av-... osv.).
Bremselysbryter de-aktiverer converterlås (men ikke i 4WD modus av praktiske årsaker for off-road bruk).
<b>Note:</b> Dette krever faktisk alle 9 reléer pga. relé-typen som er benyttet til konstruksjonen.

Når denne relé-logikken aktiveres veksles ordinært signal til solenoid for converterlås fra standard TCM-signal til "manipulert" signal. Når hovedbryter til systemet slåes av, bremsepedal trykkes inn eller impulsbryter igjen trykkes 2.,4.,6.,-- gang veksles det tilbake til standard signal fra TCM. Det er dermed ikke nødvendig å bruke diode på utgangen fra TCM siden dette signalet kobles bort.

<b>XJ etter '97:</b>
Wiringen er tilpasset XJ før 1997, men kan nokså enkelt tilpasses modeller etter '97 også. Noe av grunnen til at "Check Engine" tennes på modeller etter '97 er <b>antageligvis</b> at TCM på sene XJ senser at solenoiden til converterlås kobles fra. Siden dette oppleves som et brudd i kretsen blir feilen logget av TCM. Mye mulig at dette kan fikses ved å veksle TCM til en effektmotstand når manipulering ønskes (ca. 15ohm, min 15W) slik at kretsen oppleves som "hel" hele tiden for TCM, dersom vekslingstiden for vekslereléet er rask nok.

[512TR]

<!--quoteo(post=1328375:date=26 Mar 2007, 19:16:name=Skywalker)-->QUOTE(Skywalker @ 26 Mar 2007, 19:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><b>Funksjonsbeskrivelse:</b>
OK. Har fått sjans til å se litt på logikken her.

Funksjon:
Det er en trinn-bryter som styrer hovedstrøm til logikken (reléene her samt solenoiden til converterlås, av/på).
Det er en impuls-bryter som aktiverer og de-aktiverer converterlås ettersom impulsbryter trykkes inn (på-av-på-av-... osv.).
Bremselysbryter de-aktiverer converterlås (men ikke i 4WD modus av praktiske årsaker for off-road bruk).
<b>Note:</b> Dette krever faktisk alle 9 reléer pga. relé-typen som er benyttet til konstruksjonen.

Når denne relé-logikken aktiveres veksles ordinært signal til solenoid for converterlås fra standard TCM-signal til "manipulert" signal. Når hovedbryter til systemet slåes av, bremsepedal trykkes inn eller impulsbryter igjen trykkes 2.,4.,6.,-- gang veksles det tilbake til standard signal fra TCM. Det er dermed ikke nødvendig å bruke diode på utgangen fra TCM siden dette signalet kobles bort.

<b>XJ etter '97:</b>
Wiringen er tilpasset XJ før 1997, men kan nokså enkelt tilpasses modeller etter '97 også. Noe av grunnen til at "Check Engine" tennes på modeller etter '97 er <b>antageligvis</b> at TCM på sene XJ senser at solenoiden til converterlås kobles fra. Siden dette oppleves som et brudd i kretsen blir feilen logget av TCM. Mye mulig at dette kan fikses ved å veksle TCM til en effektmotstand når manipulering ønskes (ca. 15ohm, min 15W) slik at kretsen oppleves som "hel" hele tiden for TCM, dersom vekslingstiden for vekslereléet er rask nok.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Bra jobba Snorre,

her er hele forlaringen til yuri (forfatteren)

AW4 Torque Converter Lock

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<!--coloro:#3333FF--><!--/coloro-->Ever since my AW4 swap, I've wanted to take advantage of it being electrically shifted, and modify the way it functions to suit my needs. The two ideas I wanted were a manual-shift (paddle shift), with the ability to hold it in any gear, and a (user-friendly) torque converter lock. I'm still working on a design for the shifter. But the TC lock has been designed, installed, and tested to my liking. Follow along as I try to explain.

__________

What is it?
For those unfamiliar with auto transmissions, I'll try to explain as simple as i can how it works and what it is I'm trying to do. First of all, a torque converter is the link between an automatic transmission and the engine. It uses hydraulic force created by a rotating impeller in order to apply pressure to different clutch packs inside the transmission. Think of it like an airplanes propeller... it can sit there on the runway rotating without the plane moving forward. The pilot increases engine speed, which turns the prop faster, and air pulls the plane forward. The torque converter works the same way, but this 'forward potential' is how it applys pressure to the clutch packs (just like your foot applys pressure to the brake pedal). When the engine speed gets high enough, the first set of clutches engages and your Jeep starts to move forward in first gear. The engine RPM drops. When the engine speed increases again, the next set of clutches engages, which shifts it into second, and so on.

The problem with this design is that the engine always needs to be spinning faster than the input of the tranny, simply because the impeller (prop) needs to move the hydraulic fluid (air) to work. This 'slip' causes excess heat to build-up. This is where the TC lock comes into play. Essentially, the TC lock does just as the name implys... It locks the engine to the tranny input, thus creating a 1-1 relationship. The engine and tranny can then turn at the same RPM, thus reducing heat. It also saves a little fuel milage because the engine doesn't need to run as high RPMs to provide the same input speed to the tranny. Most trannies accomplish this automatically by using a combination of fluid passages and/or electrically-driven solenoids (as is the case with the AW4). You can see this driving down the road. When you get going a good speed in your highest gear, the tranny will drop a couple hundred RPMs. This is the TC lock functioning. It's almost like gaining another gear.

In our World
Four wheelers have figured out that when you add larger tires, the factory specs just don't cut-it anymore. You can change axle gearing to compensate for it, but there are so many other factors effecting the way it drives, like wind resistance, etc. that the vehicle isn't going to drive like the factory designed. But... that's why we modify things! To IMPROVE them! If we could lock this torque converter manually, we could improve how OUR Jeep works to suit US. If we force-lock it a little earlier on the highway, it will stop searching for the right gear. If we force-lock it while we're going down-hill, we can use the engine to help regulate our speed.

My goals
I could have just used a switch to turn on/off the TC lock, but what fun would that have been? Besides, that wouldn't have functioned like I wanted. My goals for the project were to keep the TC lock user-friendly, since the wife drives my Jeep quite often, and I've got two future drivers coming in a couple years. So I needed this to turn on/off without much effort, yet still be easy enough for me to use on the whim. I had many ideas on how to do this, but after much investigation, most had drawbacks of one kind or another.

I had two reasons why I wanted a TC lock. The first was to help out on the highway, possibly saving a little gas, but mostly just to keep it from downshifting at the slightest incline/headwind. The 'overdrive gear-hunting' has been one of my pet peaves in the past, that I'd like to get rid of. The other reason is for a psudo compression braking effect while out wheelin'. Brakes work very hard on an auto transmission in 4low. So any help I can give them will be extremely beneficial. Many people warn to not use the TC lock for this purpose because it wasn't designed to handle such high force. Truthfully, I'm not planning to use this very often. But I still wanted this functionality built-in. And I figure, if this transmission can stand-up behind Tundra V8's and high-horsepower supercharged Celica V6's, than it should be able to handle some abuse.

Here's how I looks on paper, and some explanation on what's going on:

Remember when I said "user-friendly"? Well that's where I had a hard time figuring things out. For the road, I figured that a good way to operate the TC lock would be a push-button latching switch. Hit it once, and it turns on, twice and it's off. This is done using a bank of relays and a momentary switch (R1 through R5). But what happens if I have to slow down quickly and forget to turn it off, or worse yet PANIC STOP? After a little thinking, I liked the way a cruise control system solves this problem... by disabling it with the brakes. Brilliant! This is Relay # R6 in my diagram. This relay has a constant ground on pin 86 until the brake pedal is pushed, which opens the circuit.

But not quite yet... this would not suit it's compression braking aspect, as I would probably be on the brakes if the hill was steep enough to warrent compression braking. And that's the part that stumped me for quite some time. What to use as a trigger for when I DON'T want the brakes to shut the TC lock off. This is when I figured that I'd only be using the compression braking while in 4wd. So I used the 4wd light as a trigger to disable the brake relay. This is R7 in my diagram. The instrument cluster 4WD indicator (mine says part time) is illuminated using a ground. When this ground is on pin 86, the relay closes between pin 30 and 87. This closure takes R6 out of the circuit.

Relay R8 is used a little differently than would normally be seen (it's kinda reverse, running either from pins 87 or 87a and out pin 30). This relay serves a pretty important purpose. It's job is to switch between using the factory TCM and My TC lock. Basically, in it's normally closed state the relay acts like a solid wire from the TCM to the TC lock solenoid, using pins 87a and 30. When the TC lock turns on, that connection opens up and closes pin 30 with 87. This supplys 12v to solenoid C in the transmission, bypassing the tranny computer in the process.

Relay number 9 is simply a polarity converter. This relay allows me to use the LED on the switch as an indicator for when the TC is locked. When you first flick the switch, the light stays off. It remains off until you push the TC lock push-button on the shifter, and only illuminates when the TC lock is engaged, as opposed to 'when the switch is on'... know what I mean? It does this by switching the ground.

Now I know what you're saying... 9 relays????? Holy cow! But, it's not bad at all if you have a decent pick-n-pull nearby. I pulled the perfect relay box from a ZJ. The relay box was located behind the glove box. It holds 6 of the smaller relays, three normal relays, and one of something else. While at the junkyard, search some of the other vehicles for spare relays. It's not too hard to take the box apart and re-use alot of the pins. All you have to do is pull all the relays out, then from the back side, unclip the yellow plastic pieces and push them out. Then from the front, you can see how the pins are held in the box. Use a pick tool or jewelers screwdriver to unclip the pins. These are the same pins found in the other fuse/relay box under the hood. It's also the same exact pins in your TJ's fuse/breaker box as well as most other chrysler vehicles. So if you need more pins, just go get 'em out of something else. I mounted my new relay panel behind the steering wheel knee-knocker.

And the conclusion:

I like the way this thing works! The only issue right now is that I now need to get moving on the 'manual-shifting' project to take full advantage of the TC lock. I can not hold it in gear yet, therefor the tranny can still shift even with the TC locked. This give pretty hard shifts, like dumping the clutch on a manual tranny. If you have the TC locked in 4low, it really jerks (try not to do this very much!). Other than that, the thing functions exactly like I wanted! It really calmed-down the gear-hunting on the highway. I haven't tried it yet off-road except for a small gravel road near my house, but it worked as designed there too. In fact, the 'indicator light' part of the project is an update that isn't quite finished yet because I didn't have the correct switch on-hand. The rest works great tho.<!--colorc-->
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[Amund]

Morsomt konsept. Det må rakle noe jævlig i releene når 6 stykker veksler etter hverandre Hvem blir den første til å bygge en 8086-kompatibel PC med releer?

[Skywalker]

8086-kompatibel basert på relé-teknologi blir liksom ikke det samme som en transistorbasert. Den sniken Charles Babbage skrudde jo sammen en 100% mekanisk greie som fikk til litt av hvert. Egentlig ganske tøft gjort å konstruere sånt når man bare har fjærpenn og pergament tilgjengelig. NUSSE (Norsk Universell Siffermaskin, Selvstyrt Elektronisk) basert på radiorør er jo ganske kul. De som liker logikk som fyller rommet kan beundre NUSSE på Norsk Teknisk Museum.

Jeg tipper at en relépakke på 6 omtrent samtidig vekslende reléer sparker ganske bra, så den bør nok ikke ligge og slenge løst... Men det er vel uansett ikke nok til å velte en XJ.

[Amund]

Den var grom, det hadde vært noe å hatt i stua! (Hver gang man trenger å løse vrange polynomuttrykk når strømmen er gått)

[Skywalker]

Uten Yuris beskrivende tekst ovenfor var jeg nødt til å tegne logikken på en forståelig måte slik at jeg kunne forstå hva han hadde gjort. Her er tegningen jeg laget. Bruk den gjerne til egne eksperiment. Enhver bruk av en krets koblet etter dette skjemaet brukes på eget ansvar.



Lenke for nedlasting av skjema, PNG-format, 3309 x 2339 Hi-Res. Last ned og vis i ditt favoritt bildeprogram.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u226/sk...ic/37bbcb04.png

[512TR]

Skywalker, nå venter vi på at du bygger dette relee-batteriet og kommer med en rapport

[Skywalker]

Tja. det skal vel la seg gjøre. Det vil være greit å gjøre noen erfaringer med dette i forhold til styreprogram og variasjonsmuligheter i den microcontroller-baserte varianten som er under bearbeiding.